What is going on with Rendering - virturally all attempts crash...

All Rendering attempts crash while editing standard def videos. This started appearing when I upgraded to Fedora 17.

Here is the error log:
[dv @ 0x829dac0] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate
[dv @ 0x82a4c40] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate
[dv @ 0x82d46e0] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate
[dv @ 0xb5e106a0] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate
[dv @ 0xb5e18300] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate
[dv @ 0xb5e46d60] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate
[swscaler @ 0xb0592520] Warning: data is not aligned! This can lead to a speedloss

Kdenlive version: 0.9.2
MLT version: 0.7.8
ffmpeg version: 0.10.6-1fc17

Video is rendered however it usually has audio sync problems. I use this program for creating roll ins for a cable access show every two weeks. At this point I CONSIDER THIS PROJECT BROKEN AND UNUSABLE.

what additional information is needed to solve this problem?

Has MLT or ffmpeg changed? When I used this tool under fedora 16 it worked nicely.

Do I need to compile from source rather than installing binary packages?

Finally you guys are driving me to seriously consider a "real" video editing package such as final cut pro on a Mac.

I'd like to stay with open source projects however when once working processes break and I spend hours trying to solve issues only to find out many of the issues are compatibility problem between underlying tools I get seriously annoyed!

So lets get this issue solved!

Forums:

"This started appearing when I upgraded to Fedora 17"

What has that got to do with kdenlive?

"Has MLT or ffmpeg changed? When I used this tool under fedora 16 it worked nicely."

What about asking on a Fedora forum?

"Finally you guys are driving me to seriously consider a "real" video editing package such as final cut pro on a Mac"

Go get a mac then.

"At this point I CONSIDER THIS PROJECT BROKEN AND UNUSABLE."

bye then, or try again with a bit more humility.

I am being as humble as possible - I have a live show in 4 hours and can't get the render to work correctly. Just a little pressure, if you know what I mean.

As far as a mac goes I don't have $4,000 to spend.

This is an attempt at solving a problem not a rant or to inflict criticism. Having been a software developer for almost 30 years, stability is high on my list of desirables. Updates and new releases should not "break" that which was working.

So do you have any suggestions?

First rule of OS or Application upgrade when in a 'working time is money pressured environment' is test first and ensure an OS or application upgrade doesn't break anything including device support, XP -> Windows 7, 32bit OS to 64bit, that goes for open source or commercial applications.

Second, no OSS developer owes anyone anything, they do it in their own time and with little thanks and face a multitude of problems, ffmpeg / libav no exception.

My suggestion fwiw is file a bug report.

Hi Jeff

If you want something stable - why not start replacing Fedora with something like Mint or openSUSE?
I do use openSUSE and do not have problems with rendering:

kdenlive 0.9.2 (packman repository)
MLT 0.8.6 (packman repository)
ffmpeg 0.10
openSUSE 12.1

or maybe you use your own made render profile?

So what is your source material?
What project profile do you use?
What render profile do you use?

Hope you get it sorted out...

Kind regards,

"First rule of OS or Application upgrade when in a 'working time is money pressured environment' is test first and ensure an OS or application upgrade doesn't break anything including device support, XP -> Windows 7, 32bit OS to 64bit, that goes for open source or commercial applications."

Agreed. That's why I'm giving up on Fedora - too bleeding edge for work that has a deadline!

"Second, no OSS developer owes anyone anything, they do it in their own time and with little thanks and face a multitude of problems, ffmpeg / libav no exception."

I don't have the expectation of being owed by or from any OSS developer. I'm merely trying to find solutions. I want this project to work like everyone else does. Kdenlive is the most promising of all open source NLE available.

"My suggestion fwiw is file a bug report."

I Did!

If you're going to move to another Linux distro, then I'd choose Ubuntu because there are PPA packages built nearly daily thanks to sunab, also the build script works well.

We've, being the Ubuntu users, probably the majority, have had occasional problems in the past with kdenlive / MLT / distro incompatibility for a few days but the PPA ability is very useful for updates.

Each has there own preferences to distro but in nearly 20 yrs of using Linux and moving from one distro to another including Gentoo years ago, in recent years Ubuntu has proven to be the most trouble free, for me at least, others may disagree.

"this started appearing when I upgraded to Fedora 17. "
restore your previous version of the OS !!

Zebulon,
You have some very valid points. I've been wrestling with moving away from Fedora since I first loaded F16, and to top it off, F17 has been become a nightmare over the last three months. In the last three months I've been doing a lot of video editing work for a cable access show I co-host and Kdenlive (is my NLE of choice) rendering problems have steadily increased even though I've stayed with the same version of Kdenlive - 0.9.2, while I upgraded to F17. I kept hoping F17 updates and bug fixes would resolve the problems, however about two months has passed and issues have only gotten worse with each bug fix / patch being applied.

Currently I used:

Source material: downloaded .flv video files in 640 x 360
Project profile: DV/DVD NTSC (720 x 480)
Render profile: Raw DV with DV NTSC 16:9 for .dv files, or AVI DV with DV NTSC 16:9 for .avi files. (720 x 480)

kdenlive 0.9.2 (rpmfusion repo)
MLT 0.7.8 (rpmfusion repo)
ffmpeg 0.10-6 (rpmfusion repo)

Kdenlive was working good under F16, with hardly any issues.

I noticed your version of MLT is 0.8.6. I wonder why rpmfusion is stuck back on 0.7.8? That's probably the biggest cause of the rendering issues I'm facing.

Another option I'm trying is use the build scripts and see if that resolves the issues I'm having. If the build script doesn't work then I'm in search of a "stable" version of linux. I like the KDE window manager, but I don't know which other distro uses KDE.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Jeff
===============================================================================
Hi Jeff

If you want something stable - why not start replacing Fedora with something like Mint or openSUSE?
I do use openSUSE and do not have problems with rendering:

kdenlive 0.9.2 (packman repository)
MLT 0.8.6 (packman repository)
ffmpeg 0.10
openSUSE 12.1

or maybe you use your own made render profile?

So what is your source material?
What project profile do you use?
What render profile do you use?

Hope you get it sorted out...

Kind regards,

Yellow,
I volunteer at freegeek.org here in portland or, and they use Ubuntu. Ubuntu is in the short list of distro's I'm considering. It has a large community, very stable, and has several pre built options. The only thing is I'll miss KDE window manager. I thought about Kubuntu but alas it's reached an end of life release too. Never the less I can change to something new if needed - hell I've been living on the bleeding edge with Fedora since the first release - many years ago!

Thanks,

Jeff
========================================================

If you're going to move to another Linux distro, then I'd choose Ubuntu because there are PPA packages built nearly daily thanks to sunab, also the build script works well.

We've, being the Ubuntu users, probably the majority, have had occasional problems in the past with kdenlive / MLT / distro incompatibility for a few days but the PPA ability is very useful for updates.

Each has there own preferences to distro but in nearly 20 yrs of using Linux and moving from one distro to another including Gentoo years ago, in recent years Ubuntu has proven to be the most trouble free, for me at least, others may disagree.

Ubuntu doesn't really mean missing KDE Window Manager, you could just install vanilla Ubuntu and add KDE after like any other WM its there in the Ubuntu repos.

Yes it does mean Gnome as well but either skin that down to minimal libraries if thought of both WM's feels like 'bloat'.

Used to enjoy Definitive Redhat distro's but then Fedora was born as the more 'pure' community maintained, non proprietary version and all that but I could never get on with it.

Anyway hope the problem is resolved for you soon, one way or another.

Well Jeff...

I know about such struggle to start another distro once you made your choice.
At first I didn't want to use openSUSE, but it wasn't based on any experience. Once I tried it out I found that the best that I could handle. So after a d-tour to Mint I went back to openSUSE (though I liked Mint as well).

But back to kdenlive...

If I where you I would first transcode the .flv to.dv and test if it plays well on a dv device. Than I would start a DV project with only .dv source material.
If possible - avoid the transcoding if your are able the record or get the source in dv format from the start.

In openSUSE I found getting kdenlive and mlt from the same repository also helps to avoid problems in kdenlive.

And - if you want to stick to fedora you are right - try to build kdenlive with the build script.

And finally - openSUSE is default KDE, but you also might use Gnome3, Cinnamon/Mate, LXDE or XFCE.

GOOD luck,
Kind regards,

@jeffgerritsen

If I could offer another angle if you are doing real time-sensitive production work why not use a more static distro to actually get your work done on one partition and then use whatever distro-flavor-of-the-month on another.

I develop AV Linux which aims to provide a stable production environment for both Audio and Video, it is intentionally NOT cutting edge and intended to be installed and for the most part used and left alone, important updated packages are provided occasionally. It can also be run from a USB key so if you find yourself in another 'Fedora' predicament you simply boot off your AV Linux Key with a known working version of Kdenlive and get your work done.

The proof is in trying it, have a look here:

http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html

**NOTE** AV Linux 6.0 has a decent version of Kdenlive 0.9.3 from GIT but there are updated MLT and Kdenlive packages available. They have been tested specifically for rendering issues and work well.

An update folks. I've downloaded the build script and after waiting for the frei0 git repo to reset connection ports causing an unable to connect error I had last night, I compiled from source into its own directory - on Fedora 17 the first time too boot! Hopefully this will keep me out of dependency hell. So far I've noticed improved stability and less rendering crashes.

Kdenlive version: 0.9.3
MLT version: 0.8.7

The project format is DV/DVD NTSC
The imported clip is flash 640 x 360
Codecs: H.264 video and MPEG-4 AAC for audio

I am able to render a video in the original clip format (flash), mpeg, Theora, webm, and mpg4. However any attempt to render into a Real video, DV or AVI format crashes the rendering engine to crash at the end of the rendering process yielding spotty audio and out of sync audio. I was hoping to render to avi or dv format, but the render engine would have none of it.

All rendered videos play using Xine. I like Xine because it is not forgiving as other players and my cable access show co-host uses a old windows editing system that is becoming temperamental with some of the new codecs.

So I would guess at this point I would have to transcode each clip into the project format (In the past using F16 I didn't need to perform this part) using something like winff or other transcoding tool.

Overall I like the idea of compiling into a directory. It provides a closed environment so I don't get dependencies changing out from underneath me, which I found out yesterday can be annoying as hell.

Next step is to decide which new linux distro to install.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Jeff

GMaq,
Thanks for the idea - I like it. Installing one or more partitions for specific purposes just might be the ticket. I'll look into that option.

Jeff

============================================================================================
@jeffgerritsen

If I could offer another angle if you are doing real time-sensitive production work why not use a more static distro to actually get your work done on one partition and then use whatever distro-flavor-of-the-month on another.

I develop AV Linux which aims to provide a stable production environment for both Audio and Video, it is intentionally NOT cutting edge and intended to be installed and for the most part used and left alone, important updated packages are provided occasionally. It can also be run from a USB key so if you find yourself in another 'Fedora' predicament you simply boot off your AV Linux Key with a known working version of Kdenlive and get your work done.

The proof is in trying it, have a look here:

http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html

**NOTE** AV Linux 6.0 has a decent version of Kdenlive 0.9.3 from GIT but there are updated MLT and Kdenlive packages available. They have been tested specifically for rendering issues and work well.

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